Someone help me understand please?

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Someone help me understand please?

by bugelugzaflyonthewall @ 2009-02-28 – 11:04:21

A family friend's son committed suicide on Thursday. The family in question all the time I have known them (17 years) have been devout to their religion. Participating members of their congregation who have served with unwavering diligence. The young man in question was under psychiatric care at the time and as such was suffering an episode of a mental illness and I would argue that he could not at the time of his actions fairly be held accountable for them. This is my dilema - The very church which this family fellowship with have refused to permit a funeral service of faith.

Who is the funeral for? He that is departed or is it the platform of farewell for those who have lost a loved one. Where is the compassion for fellow mankind in the time of their tragedy. As these parents come to terms with their tragic loss, and the manner in which it occurred they too have to choose between their religion of choice and the support of their friends, or the son whom they loved dearly. How does this exhibit love, forgiveness and redepmtion? People want to know why the Christian church at large, albeit not all religions are a dying commodity. People want to know why there is so much stigma and prejudice in society and why mankind has become so selfish. Well may I put forward, that maybe, just maybe and it really is a long shot here - behaviour such as this disillustions those already lost...

Someone, somewhere must be able to explain this situation but to me, it simply makes no sense especially as those who believe in a Christian faith are expected to follow Jesus example, loving thy neighbour as we love ourself and to weep with those who weep.

Or does that apply when we sin in the eyes of man, because I also thought we were commanded a) not to judge lest we be judged ourselves and b) to love the sinner but reject the sin. But hey what do I know????
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17 Comments to Someone help me understand please?

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- deleted user (Visitor)
- http://www.personalisedtale.webs.com/
- 2009-02-28 @ 11:13:14
You cant take the church on I am afraid. It is pretty clear about its feelings towards suicide. There may be more progressive churches locally that will allow a funeral to take place.

If you are christian then the funeral isnt for the people left behind as you have stated it is for the departed. It is to finish the ritual which begins with baptism. It is sending the departed to heaven. I know that in reality it is used as a way to say goodbye but in terms of the faith that is not what it is for.

Though I understand where you are coming from, I myself am not religious and balk at the hypocrisy the family you talk about if as devout as you suggest should be aware of the 'rules' as unfair as it may seem that is what they believe, there cant really be exceptions to the rule.

Though your love the sinner is a valid point suicide is the ultimate, the boy who took his life cant repent therefore he dies a sinner. All other sins are repentable. Thats where love the sinner comes in.

Now on a personal level, I am so sorry that you are going through this I am sure that it is hard for you also. Suicide is such a hard thing on the family and I expect that they are feeling as though they are not only tortuing themselves but being punished by their friends. I do hope that things get easier for all of you.
- - bugelugzaflyonthewall
  - 2009-02-28 @ 11:21:13
  I have no desire to take on the church, I just want to understand their hypocrosy. And it is also written in the new testament that the dead must be left to bury the dead... so I fail to understand how that fits in with the accepted Christian understanding of a funeral. Like you say the departed cannot make further utterence, nor can they reside with us any longer so by this standard how then can a funeral be justified?
  
  Thank you for your words of comfort in this time of loss
  - - deleted user (Visitor)
    - http://www.personalisedtale.webs.com/
    - 2009-02-28 @ 11:33:00
    The problem is that the new testament often contradicts the old. Therefore though you can quote the bible it may not make any difference to the church itself. Each one will make its own rules because without this there is a contradiction to anything.
    
    When you confirm to the church you state that you will abide by the specific institutions rules and ideas.
    
    Its one of the big problems with organised relation.
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  - - anyak
    - http://www.animalsrights.blog.co.uk
    - 2009-03-01 @ 16:24:38
    My cousin hung himself and he was allowed a funeral we are catholics i dont understand why your church say that thats not right
    - - bugelugzaflyonthewall
      - 2009-03-01 @ 17:58:05
      My sentiments precisely.
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- deleted user (Visitor)
- http://feralandwild.wordpress.com
- 2009-02-28 @ 11:16:16
I don't know what to say as I stumbled upon this and it has left me dumbfounded, not surprised,but just numbed and angry Oh I could rant and rant, but what good would that do? At least you have opened up and vented here. I feel for you and the situation, at this point, seems impossible. I am hoping that he church will be pressured and will see sense in the end. I really hope the family are able to cope with this on top of their suffering and loss. They have been refused sanctuary in their time of great need and I have always thought that was a fundamental principle within any Christian Church.
Take care, be gentle on yourself.
- - bugelugzaflyonthewall
  - 2009-02-28 @ 11:28:03
  So too did I, however there are houses of faith, and religious institutions. I guess that the latter finds the doctrines of man far more necessary for governance and order than those who love unconditionally and seek to become the best that they can be and do unto others as they would have done unto themselves. Thank you for your support and in faith I believe we shall find the ability to overcome the challenges before us. Somehow we will find beauty and grace within this terrible situation. Though the package is not the most radiant, Byron's life though now extinguished was bright in its radiance and those of us who knew him, were enriched by the experience.
  - - deleted user (Visitor)
    - http://feralandwild.wordpress.com
    - 2009-02-28 @ 11:32:16
    You are more than welcome, and yes you will find the beauty and grace to come through it, as will he. Blessings.
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- the-living-dead
- 2009-02-28 @ 11:24:53
hmmmm...for centuries now the words of the wise ones have been lost in translation or simply mis-translated and filtered through the imperfect mind.this is just another example of what humans have become- instead of helping the family in their time of need the church closes its doors on them. tsk. selfish. humans have come to cling onto scriptures so much that they have forgotten their humanity in the process...hmmm...
being there for them is the least you can do and its something you should do... cheers. \m/
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- juliepenkova ^Pro
- http://juliepenkova.blog.co.uk
- 2009-02-28 @ 11:36:21
Redsause has shown why I hate religion and really that is
separate from actually what God is all about.
There are many forms of christianity and I am not sure
where their faith stems from.
Like I told you on your previous blog, I do not agree with
catholic hipocracy, it is not true christianity at all.
No wonder you wanted to get it out of your system Julie!!
I would too!!
It is very sad indeed.
- - bugelugzaflyonthewall
  - 2009-02-28 @ 11:48:00
  Sadly, the house of religion in question is not Catholic, however some of the ethos parallels. If the Bible is not for private interpretation lest any man should boast, and if we are commanded to forgive our bretheren 77 time 7 times in a day, and to comfort one another I dont know how we are able to do this when one is excommunicated. The mere fact that they cannot repent for themselves, I would have thought would have necessitated the use of those gifted with intercession and like Jesus on the cross who cried out to his Father 'Forgive them for they know not what they do' to those who killed him, I would have thought that he was incapacitated by mental illness and no more in governance of his actions would have been intitled to the same grace and mercy - but like I said who am I to question these long established traditions of man???
  - - juliepenkova ^Pro
    - http://juliepenkova.blog.co.uk
    - 2009-02-28 @ 13:16:16
    Exactly.... Jesus would never condemm in this way!!
    religion has a lot to answer for, and why it is conformist
    and at times brainwashing.
    This young man in the eyes of God is intitled to grace and mercy Julie!!
    Maybe not of the church but of God himself!!
    That is what I believe.
    I do feel for the family though, who have respect in their belief and at a time of need is shown religious hipocracy.
    This is not what the love of God is about.
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- SeasideMan ^Pro
- 2009-02-28 @ 15:04:28
In the secular world, the funeral is to help the grieving process and celebrate the life of the deceased.

It seems to me that there are two conflicting principles at play here in the Christian view of this. The first is that each person's life is a gift from god and therefore suicide is a deep sin against god. The second is the basic message of love. I suspect this particular sect must be emphasizing the former over the latter. It's a perfectly valid interpretation. This, for me, one of the big problems with Christianity. There are so many different interpretations of scripture and emphasis on some bits over others, and the result is the approximately 2000 different sects, all of which have slightly different practices.

My family are Methodists and I think the Methodists wouldn't have been so concerned about the suicide, but more High Church sects tend to frown on it more.

Whatever the truth of this matter is, it's a shame that the dead person should be disrespected as seems to be the case here. Suicide is a dreadful business and I hope you and the family involved can learn to live with it.

Tom.
- - bugelugzaflyonthewall
  - 2009-02-28 @ 16:14:28
  Thanks Tom, we have little choice but to learn to live with it. What has been done cannot be undone. None of us are responsible for the actions of others and to blame ourselve and beat ourselves up over signs and opportunities we may have missed, is nothing but futile. The only thing that we can do, is take on the attributes of his character that endeared him to us and enable them to live on through us.
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- PurpleDragon
- 2009-02-28 @ 16:12:32
Which is why I don't practice christianity.
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- mazzy
- 2009-03-01 @ 18:34:58
First of all, I am so sorry to read about the utter callousness of the fellowship's refusal to allow a funeral. Please forgive me if I'm wrong, but the word 'fellowship' suggests a born again Christian group (I tried it, so to speak, twenty-odd years ago). Some Christians are lovely people, but some are some of the most judgemental and bigoted people you could wish not to meet and sadly these people appear to fall into the latter category. If, as they say, God is all loving, then he would undoubtedly embrace somebody who was deeply troubled, and Jesus himself worked amongst those cast out by society. I myself have been depressed and when I was young made what I would now admit to a half hearted suicide attempt and used to say to myself that I would be dead by the age of twenty. As for religion, I now describe myself as an agnostic

All the best, mazzy
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- antlady69 ^Pro
- http://antmusic-forever.blog.co.uk
- 2009-03-03 @ 06:09:42
I feel very sorry for the family. They should be getting thorough support from their church right now, but aren't. I wonder if that will have any effect of their future support for this church? I'm talking about the church now, not their faith.

Unfortunately, it's happening all the time that churches interpret their respective religions very individually. And not always with the best for their followers in mind.

This is neither a consolation for the family nor an explanation for you. Not sure there IS a proper explanation, other than 'the curse of any religion is the human's interpretation of it'.
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