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@ 2009-01-07 – 23:23:20
It's been the hottest topic at BCUK for days now, and I think I've only come across one person who seemed to think righteousness was on the Israeli side. So, can we increase the count from 1?
Those supporting the Israeli actions in Gaza, please identify yourselves!
Tom.
technomist
SeasideMan
Pro No, supporting neither would be another option.
Tom.
Middleagedbloke
Pro Not necessarily so. However I find it impossible to give any credence to the current Israeli actions in Gaza. It smacks of aparthied to me.
Nigel
SeasideMan
Pro Thanks, Nigel.
Tom.
the-living-dead
i dont support any war. no matter which side has wronged i dont see why there should always be ppl dying for it. tsk.
SeasideMan
Pro A fine attitude, and one I almost completely agree with.
Thanks, Tom.
dennypoos
Not me.
HektorRevisited
I think Israel has every right to take the action that it, as a sovereign nation, considers fit to defend its borders and resist attacks. Had Hamas not fired rockets into Israel, Israel would not have responded.
soyunperdedor
Pro Exactly, Hektor. I don't like war, it saddens me, but they are only doing what many other countries would do if someone fired rockets into them. Fire back. Boom. Death all round.
HektorRevisited
I think that only Hamas can gain from the current conflict.
soyunperdedor
Pro I'm not entirely sure anyone does.
SeasideMan
Pro There is a rather interesting timeline of the events here:
http://stephiblog.wordpress.com/2009/01/05/israeli-assault-on-gaza-timeline/
If the details are correct (ignoring the slightly inflammatory language), then it isn't at all as simple as Hamas fired rockets and Israel responded. Needless to say, much of the detail listed was not reported on major news media in the UK.
Tom.
DominicGee
I love Stephi's blog, it's awesome.
DominicGee
Ah, no wait, I was thinking of another one.
DominicGee
I think it's more complicated than choosing sides - at the moment all one can do is support or condemn a particular action taken by either side.
It would take a complete reversal of current policy by either or both of them to garner my 'support'.
While I 'support' the Palestinians who are dying and being displaced I also condemn the actions of their political representatives.
I would support Israel if they acted without the backing of the US cos then they'd be forced to compromise a bit more (though it could make them very vulnerable).
I would support Palestine if their government calmed down with the whole 'destruction of Israel' thing and stopped making it into a Judeo-Islamic conflict.
So in reality, I support neither. Boring!
SeasideMan
Pro I condemn all of the violence by both sides, but that in no way helps towards a solution!
Tom.
DominicGee
You want a solution?
I dunno...
What did king Solomon do when two women claimed the same child? He offered to cut it in half, then gave the child to the woman who protested the most.
I wonder if a similar tactic can be applied here.
Probably not.
Almost certainly not.
SeasideMan
Pro I would think the arms manufacturers are the only ones who don't want a solution, but I struggle to see any likely resolution to this conflict unless all 3 of these happen:
1. World (specifically US) support for Israel drops dramatically
2. The Palestinians are allowed to rebuild their infrastructure and get more space.
3. Hamas stop firing rockets.
4. The Israelis stop assassinating Palestinians.
Something about a snowball in hell comes to mind...
MichaelStMark
Pro Low-grade leadership on all sides Dominic including especially Israel and the US.
Leaders not fit to be leaders is also a worldwide problem.
But it's obvious to everyone except the most rabid Zionist that the Palestinian people have been sorely aggrieved, oppressed and maltreated by Israel over the years and deserve a decent deal on land, international aid to rebuild... and most of all a state of their own.
lostjohnny
The action of Israel is beyond the defence of it's civilians.
An extremist exercise at the expense of innocent lives. They are sowing more seeds that will lead to future violence.
SeasideMan
Pro That seems to be a common view, LJ: every Palestinian killed created more potential future problems for Israel.
Tom.
I don't pretend to understand the politics but cannot see how a cycle of invasion ceasefire, blockade, infiltration, invasion etc is going to achieve anything other than making life hell for those survivors who chose (or have to) live there.
So yet another no!
joebangles
Well, if some group in Calais fired over 8,000 rockets at Dover I would want the British army shooting back immediately so I do not blame Israel for taking direct action as no one else seems to want to stop those in Gaza.
Just what type of animal sites rocket positions, that must obviously come under attack, in civilian areas? There again, Did these Gazans vote for representation by these that are launching the rockets into Israel? What are the Palestinian Government, who lay claim to the Gaza Strip, doing to help?
SeasideMan
Pro Some good points there. This timeline goes against the idea that Israel are just retaliating:
http://stephiblog.wordpress.com/2009/01/05/israeli-assault-on-gaza-timeline/
Tom.
technomist
I have heard this point made many times. I agree that it is wrong to fire on civilians. I also think it is wrong to hide among civilians when fighting or preparing to fight an enemy.
Israel clearly has a strong grievance in finding that Hamas won't come out and fight like men, but they wear civlian clothes and melt away when they can into the trees (or in their case, the highly populated areas full of non-combatants). The Minutemen used to do something similar during the civil war which the Americans call the War of Independence or Revolutionary War.
It has however ever been thus, and never entirely clear-cut. The Israeli army itself has been known to muster its troops in civilian areas (I recall seeing units meeting up on a kibbutz in Northern Israel prior to going intot combat against Hezbollah, but no-one commented at the time that there was anythign wrong woth that). Many of its combatants are, in fact, civilians most of the time they are not kicking the crap out of the Palestinians.
grumpus
Pro Without reading any of the above, if anyone kept firing thousands of rockets at my home town over a period of years I would EXPECT my government to KICK THE SHIT OUT OF THEM!!
The imbeciles in Hamas and all their supporters need to be exterminated like the vermin they are!!
SeasideMan
Pro Thanks, you are the first to come out in complete support of Israel in this. I appreciate your candor, even as I disagree with your position.
Tom.
wehavetoactnow
I don't know enough about it to comment, but I feel very sad about the fighting, and the subsequent humanitarian crisis... how awful it must be to live there!
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Would it be reasonable to assume that were no-one to put their names forward, that everyone therefore could be said to support the Palestinian actions in Gaza?