How famous do you have to be before you are assassinated as opposed to murdered?
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Kibitz
- 2008-06-27 @ 07:20:01
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grumpus
Pro - http://bobmblack.blog.co.uk
- 2008-06-27 @ 12:39:13
Usually happens when your mental age goes into reverse!
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grumpus
Pro
- http://bobmblack.blog.co.uk
- 2008-06-27 @ 07:32:54
Assassination is mostly carried out to (a) remove an enemy or (b) draw attention to the assassin or his cause. The victim is usually high profile because this has greater effect.
However, although the victim may be important in his own country or organization, he may not be generally well known world wide.
The assassination of a country's top spy, for instance, may well even be covered up by his own organization specifically to avoid publicity.
Assassination itself can bring fame to a person who was hitherto largely unknown.-
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GilraenH
Pro - http://www.gilraen.blog.co.uk
- 2008-06-27 @ 18:47:06
I think you've hit the nail on the head there - remember Litvinyenko? (I use the phonetic version of his name here as I have no idea how to spell it without a google search, sorry). Nobody had heard of him before his 'murder' but I suppose that would be assassination? Hmmm...
So is the motive for the murder as mush as a determination of a person's status as to whether they were assassinated or murdered?-
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grumpus
Pro
- http://bobmblack.blog.co.uk
- 2008-06-27 @ 20:02:48
Litvinenko (no 'y') is a good example. Motive, the victim's status, the assassin/murderer's mental state, and the method employed, all seem to come into it.
In each case it seems to be the media and the police who decide whether to call the crime assassination or murder and they don't always agree.-
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GilraenH
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- 2008-06-27 @ 21:11:52
Indeed. Although I am beginning to think that the only people who are assassinated as opposed to murdered are country leaders and/or challenging leaders. Mugabe would be assassinated. JFK was. I can't think of anyone else who has been described as having been assassinated that was not a world/country leader or one that got killed for opposing such.
I may be proved wrong!
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grumpus
Pro
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- 2008-06-27 @ 22:23:06
Some possible exceptions may be:-
Martin Luther King
Robert F Kennedy
Benazir Bhutto
John Lennon
Jesse James
I too may be proved wrong.
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GilraenH
Pro
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- 2008-06-28 @ 10:07:50
Wan't Jesse James just because of the name of the film?
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grumpus
Pro
- http://bobmblack.blog.co.uk
- 2008-06-28 @ 18:20:25
There have been several films based on the life of Jesse James a real life notorious outlaw in America's mid-west in the 1870/80's. He gave up crime and tried to settle down but was shot in the back, in his own home, by a small time criminal, Robert Ford, who did it purely for the bounty money.
Sounds like an assassination to me. -
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An assassination is the pre-meditated murder of an individual that has been specifically selected due to their status and position.
So if you kill your wife because you hate her even if she were Cherie Blair it would be murder. if however you killed the vagrant down the read because he had been on local TV and become a local celeb..well that would be an assassination.
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joebangles
- 2008-06-27 @ 14:32:35
"So if you kill your wife because you hate her even if she were Cherie Blair".
Oh yes, I love that line Jack.-
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GilraenH
Pro
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- 2008-06-27 @ 18:53:28
Not so - if Jade Goody, say (and this isn't anything against the woman, just using her as an example) was murdered because of her fame by a deranged stalker fan, then the news would still say 'Jade Goody Murdered'. I still think you have to have a certain level of fame before the assassination thing comes into play.
I think it has to do with politics.-
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CassandraofTroy
- 2008-06-28 @ 16:26:41
Exactly. I can't remember anyone ever saying Jill Dando was 'assassinated'
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ajnspencer
Pro - http://www.devonwallart.co.uk
- 2008-06-27 @ 08:55:43
I reckon it's less famous than a one-hit-wonder but more famous than a Big Brother 'contestant'...
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GilraenH
Pro
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- 2008-06-27 @ 18:54:29
Does such a celebrity exist? A low-key celebrity chef perhaps?
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ajnspencer
Pro
- http://www.devonwallart.co.uk
- 2008-06-27 @ 19:51:33
I think I work with a couple
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playwrite27
- http://www.davidtennant.blog.co.uk
- 2008-06-27 @ 14:19:20
It's like when a rich and famous person is arrested for a crime and let go with a slap on the wrist, as opposed to some poor schmuck who is shoved into jail and the key thrown away.
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GilraenH
Pro
- http://www.gilraen.blog.co.uk
- 2008-06-27 @ 18:55:06
*ahem* OJ *ahem*
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LandersUK
- http://www.iamlanders.com
- 2008-06-27 @ 22:49:21
I loved reading all these long replies.
The answer is very simple.
Assassination is requested/ordered by a third party.
Murder is not.-
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LandersUK
- http://www.iamlanders.com
- 2008-06-27 @ 22:53:18
Actually - to answer your question - you don't have to be famous at all.
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Kibitz
- 2008-06-28 @ 07:28:29
I'm not sure that's true.
If I ... acting alone shot Mugabe ..
Wouldn't the headlines read ..
Mugabe Assassinated?
Adam.-
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GilraenH
Pro
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- 2008-06-28 @ 08:43:33
Yes, they would. JFK was assassinated, but LH Oswald was acting alone (conspiracy theories aside).
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LandersUK
- http://www.iamlanders.com
- 2008-06-28 @ 09:35:13
Oswald was charged with the murder of JFK not the assassination.
As I said to Kibitz, it's all based on assumption.
"How can Oswald have acted alone?" said the papers. "Surely shooting the president takes some planning and one man couldn't do it alone!" So because he can't have been acting alone, it must have been planned, they decided he must have been acting on orders therefore it became an assassination.
When Oswald was charged he was charged with murder. This is because the police (order by the cia/fbi/kgb/mfi/diy/I don't care) decided that Oswald was had acted alone of his own free will, without any help from anyone else and so they charged him with murder.-
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GilraenH
Pro
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- 2008-06-28 @ 09:39:46
Well, you can't be charged with assassination - isn't that semantics? Maybe I'm thinking of how one would describe it rather than an actual Oxford dictionary definition.
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LandersUK
- http://www.iamlanders.com
- 2008-06-28 @ 09:52:58
You can be charged with assassination.
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GilraenH
Pro
- http://www.gilraen.blog.co.uk
- 2008-06-28 @ 10:04:15
Really? I suppose you can if you're a hit man. Now here's a new take. Do you have to be a paid hitman to assassinate someone? (Sorry this is probably the point you were making earlier).
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GilraenH
Pro
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- 2008-06-28 @ 10:14:57
This what wiki says - do we agree though?
Assassination is the targeted killing of a high-profile person. An added distinction between assassination and other forms of killing is that the assassin (one who performs an assassination) usually has an ideological or political motivation, though many assassins (especially those not part of an organization) also demonstrate insanity. Other motivations may be money (contract killing), revenge, or a military operation.
The assassination euphemism targeted killing (or extrajudicial punishment / execution) is also used for the government-sanctioned killing of opponents. 'Assassination' itself, along with terms such as 'terrorist' and 'freedom fighter', may in this context be considered a loaded term, as it implies an act in which the proponents of such killings may consider them justified or even necessary.
Some citation may be needed, I'm sure-
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LandersUK
- http://www.iamlanders.com
- 2008-06-28 @ 10:16:32
Some citation may be needed, I'm sure
LOL! -
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LandersUK
- http://www.iamlanders.com
- 2008-06-28 @ 09:25:27
Yes they would. And they'd be wrong. The media would instantly assume that you did it on behalf of someone else as he's a political figure and your specific target. But, when the case was investigated by the police and you said you were acting alone then it would be murder.
This is all to do with incorrect assumptions that many people and organisations make in order to cover themselves. If a plane crashes it's instantly classed as "pilot error" other wise the airline would have to ground every plane of that type.
When a famous person is killed it's called an assassination because it's assumed you have to be mentally stable to have put your plan into action and therefore wouldn't kill someone without due cause. As this celeb has more than likely not had any connection with you then you must be acting on behalf of someone else therefore the celeb was assassinated. If the police have caught you and it's murder then it's case closed but if it's assassination then they know they have to look for the king pin. -
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Kibitz
- 2008-06-28 @ 07:38:51
I've been browsing this on the net.
I still don't have an answer but I think you're right ...
It's mainly to do with the victim being a political figure.
In my mind - John Lennon was murdered not assassinated.
Two additional factors ... which may or may not be true.
a) The victim doesn't know the assassin. If they do - it's murder. No matter the prominence. Prince Phillip would Murder not Assassinate The Queen.
b) Assassinations take place in a public area. The Queen would be murdered in her bed. But assassinated on the balcony of Buckingham Palace.
Adam.-
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GilraenH
Pro
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- 2008-06-28 @ 08:46:45
I think we've come up with the best answer there - a political or world leader or very high profile person opposing such power, public place, doesn't matter who, how many people or why they have done it. I can't think of any people who the media who has not dubbed 'assassinated' that doesn't fit into this criteria.
I'm happy to be proved wrong to throw a spanner in the works! -
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LandersUK
- http://www.iamlanders.com
- 2008-06-28 @ 09:28:52
So would you say Jill Dando was murdered or assassinated?
She didn't know Barry George and was it was in a public place.-
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GilraenH
Pro
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- 2008-06-28 @ 09:43:24
I'd say that Jill Dando was murdered.
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LandersUK
- http://www.iamlanders.com
- 2008-06-28 @ 09:54:58
But going by your theory she must been assassinated surely?
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GilraenH
Pro
- http://www.gilraen.blog.co.uk
- 2008-06-28 @ 10:01:20
No. Jill Dando isn't a political figure, etc.
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LandersUK
- http://www.iamlanders.com
- 2008-06-28 @ 10:15:45
Fair enough.
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kendersrule
Pro - 2008-07-01 @ 12:29:46
I thought assassins got paid and murderers just kill people...?
people who have been killed by nutjobs and assassin has been bandied about are not assassinated, this is just media spin on their murder. was lee harvey paid to kill JKF? if not then he was murdered, in public sure, but is still murder.
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Good question .. And I’m sure someone clever will know the answer.
What I always wonder in a kinda similar way is ...
At what age does one start ’having falls’ rather than just falling over ... ?
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