Illegal Music Downloading and the new Coldplay Album

« Green agenda. A con? | “Hoodies”, Are they all so bad? »

Illegal Music Downloading and the new Coldplay Album

by SeasideMan ^Pro @ 2008-06-09 – 21:04:11

I’m sure all you pop fans are eagerly waiting to get your mitts on the new Coldplay album Viva la Vida, which gets released here next week. Or perhaps not, because the whole thing has been on youtube for the last week so lots of you have probably downloaded it already.

So, here is my first of two questions:

Is it morally wrong to download it without paying for it?

Technically it isn’t stealing, because you aren’t taking something physical from someone: it’s not like stealing a CD from a shop. It is copyright infringement which is illegal, but should even that be illegal?

And my second question:

What does this mean for the music industry?

Fans and those who want a CD of the music and don’t feel happy illegally downloading will still buy it, but lots will just rip it from youtube and stick it on their MP3 player for nothing. So why should record companies spend a fortune getting albums made in the most expensive studios, get the best producer in the world (Brian Eno) to produce it and then market it, when lots of people are just going to take it for nothing? Or perhaps you think it would be better if they didn’t.

What are your thoughts?

Cheers, Tom.
Options:
Tags:
- music
- coldplay
- illegal
- downloading

46 Comments to Illegal Music Downloading and the new Coldplay Album

Hide subcomments

- kevinwilson ^Pro
- 2008-06-09 @ 21:59:44
i can't help but think that the music companies and the bands themselves are making so much money anyway, that i can't be making a huge dent in their rolls royce maintenance bills!
i can't make my mind up about the morals of it - on balance,i think it's wrong that you can get any product for free. if you want it, pay for it.
- - SeasideMan ^Pro
  - 2008-06-09 @ 22:24:19
  What you say is true of the big bands. It's the small struggling ones who will be hit by reduced sales. But it could actually end up being a good thing for these 3 reasons:
  
  1. If fewer units are sold, bands will have to start making money from playing live.
  
  2. The importance of record companies will diminish.
  
  3. The amount of available music will go up
  
  My personal view is that if all music is free, there is the risk that it will be devalued. Why bother collecting marbles if there are buckets of free marbles on every street corner? On balance, it probably is immoral to get music for free because you are effectively taking wages out of someone's pocket. We don't expect plumbers to work for free, so why expect it of musicians?
  
  This really is a difficult issue as I can see both sides of it.
  
  Tom.
  - - GilraenH ^Pro
    - http://www.gilraen.blog.co.uk
    - 2008-06-10 @ 01:18:17
    Everything Kevin has said is bollocks. Sorry, but there are some great bands out there who get a pretty crap sum after the manager has had his take.
    
    I agree with Tom, talented lesser-known music artists now have to rely on getting on MySpace, etc, and if people don't buy their records - emphasis on the word BUY - then they don't make a wage.
    
    What else do you think they do? Get real.
    - - Kibitz
      - 2008-06-10 @ 08:22:40
      I guess you could argue that illegal downloads help small bands gain exposure leading to future sales ... x
      
      P.S.
      
      Allow me ... That's bollocks!
      - SeasideMan ^Pro
        
        2008-06-10 @ 09:28:08
        
        That is an aspect worthy of mentioning, and thanks for doing so. Unfortunately, those future sales will probably be greatly diminished because of the downloads!
        
        Tom.
        
        Reply to comment
        
        Permalink
- joebangles
- 2008-06-09 @ 22:19:21
I don't believe that in the long run you get anything for free, but have to admit that I don't see how the record company will be able to charge. They presumably have already paid the musicians so they won't lose out, and the music industry are no fools.

I think that morals disappeared many years ago, morally it was wrong for the record company to charge excessive prices for a CD in the past, it probably is wrong, but that is not going to stop anyone that wishes to do it.
- - SeasideMan ^Pro
  - 2008-06-09 @ 22:32:50
  If illegal downloading continues to rise, it could put all of the record companies out of business, and all the high-street CD shops too. It's already happening to the shops. It can be argued that this is no bad thing.
  
  Morals and capitalism make uncomfortable bedfellows. The record companies charged the prices for CDs that the market would bear. That wasn't morally wrong, it was just pure capitalistic greed at work. It was probably short-sighted because lots of people were upset by it, but no more than that. Perhaps if CDs had never been more than a fiver, there wouldn't have been such a rush to work out ways to rip them off. We'll never know the answer to that.
  
  One thing I know for sure as a budding musician myself is that I won't ever make my living from selling music. I might get paid to play it, but I don't ever expect to sell much of it.
  
  Tom.
  - Reply to comment
  - Permalink
- GilraenH ^Pro
- http://www.gilraen.blog.co.uk
- 2008-06-10 @ 01:13:34
Yep. The big bands can take the hits, but the small bands make peanuts because of illegal downloading. There's nothing wrong with sampling a song, seeing what it's like, but if you like it, buy it.
- - SeasideMan ^Pro
  - 2008-06-10 @ 09:25:34
  Using it as a try before you buy scheme seems fair enough to me too.
  
  It's a difficult time to be a new struggling band, unless you're lucky enough to get a wave of internet popularity, like Arctic Monkeys did.
  
  Tom.
  - Reply to comment
  - Permalink
- DominicGee
- 2008-06-10 @ 13:46:50
I only download bands that i probably wasn't going to buy anyway. Bands and music I'm a real fan of I'll go out and buy:
"People Dont Wanna Pay For C.D's
Now Every Other House Holds Got P.C's,
They Download On Mp3's,
People Please Be Reasonable (Yeah)
How Am I Gonna Make My G's,
If You Got My Album Before The Release,
The Qualitys Rubbish And There Aint No Sleaves,
Do You Deem That Feesable?"
[Sway - Downloads]

I bought his album, but I won't even bother with Coldplay's!
- - SeasideMan ^Pro
  - 2008-06-10 @ 13:58:01
  "I only download bands that i probably wasn't going to buy anyway. Bands and music I'm a real fan of I'll go out and buy"
  
  So you'll break the law for music you don't like but you won't for music you do like. I see.
  
  But what's your answer to the moral question:
  
  Is it morally wrong to download it without paying for it?
  
  Tom.
  - - DominicGee
    - 2008-06-10 @ 14:14:22
    Ok, when you put it like that it sounds wierd, but when there is no consequence involved (on my part) it's not like I'm taking more of a risk for something I don't like, it'd be dishonest of me to pay for it - they'll think I think it's worth paying for ha ha.
    
    Yes, it probably is morally wrong to download it for free. But there are several defense mechanisms I have fabricated so I don't think of myself as a bad person.
    1. As I said, important music I buy, stuff I'm a bit interested in or just like the sound of but has no lasting value I'll download.
    2. CDs are expensive, and I'm poor.
    3. I regularly pay to see live acts.
    4. Truth of the matter is, sad though it is, I won't get caught and it's not somebody's personal affects, which is why it happens. It's no good likening it to shop lifting because there's no risk involved.
    - - SeasideMan ^Pro
      - 2008-06-10 @ 14:25:25
      Thanks for answering. The prevailing view seems to be the same as yours: it is morally wrong but people will do it anyway. All sorts of reasons get made up to justify doing the immoral thing, and yours are fairly common ones.
      
      Do you have any thoughts on the long-term effect this will have in the music industry?
      
      Tom.
      - DominicGee
        
        2008-06-10 @ 14:49:01
        
        The optimistic answer to that is that it'll free music up as a commodity for sharing and enjoying, it'll weaken the power of the record lables, enocurage live music, see an increase in the total number of acts and an end to commercial rubbish.
        
        The pessimistic and probably more realistic answer is that the internet will have to become regulated, monitored, measured and eventually taxed.
        
        Reply to comment
        
        Permalink
        
        Show this thread
        
        SeasideMan ^Pro
        
        2008-06-10 @ 14:57:07
        
        I see your optimistic answer as the more likely outcome, and that's pretty much what I said to someone else above.
        
        But I also think it will devalue music. Like many people, I used to save up for records when I was a kid (yes, records - I am that old!) and they became valuable possessions. I still have many records that I bought over 30 years ago, including a fairly rare Pink Vinyl version of Led Zeppelin 4. When you can get any music you like for nothing and it's just a file on your hard drive, it becomes far more ephemeral and I can't help but think that something important will have been lost.
        
        Tom.
        
        Reply to comment
        
        Permalink
        
        Show this thread
        
        DominicGee
        
        2008-06-10 @ 15:37:12
        
        True enough, but when changes such as this happen, it is up to people like you to preserve the past. It is because we see this change within one lifetime, from vinyl to mp3 that people will hold on to the past. The value of vinyl will go up, and originals will become sacred. Vinyl will still be produced for some time yet, until djs abandon them altogether, but there are many that still use them.
        I don;t think vinyls will disappear too quickly as they are the most faithful recording of a sound you can get.
        
        Reply to comment
        
        Permalink
        
        Show this thread
        
        SeasideMan ^Pro
        
        2008-06-10 @ 16:45:36
        
        Vinyl is rapidly on it's way out. Final Scratch is one of the last nails in it's coffin which means that even DJs don't need it any more.
        
        24-bit 48K super-CD digital recordings actually sound better than vinyl. Calling vinyl the "most faithful" hasn't been true since recording studios started recording on DAT players over a decade ago. It's all Protools Hard-disk in the top studios now and even some of the cheaper ones. When The Master is digital, anything analogue is necessarily inferior.
        
        I don't miss vinyl, it had it's day and gets phased out like everything. The cover art is the only thing I miss about it.
        
        Tom.
        
        Reply to comment
        
        Permalink
- dennypoos
- 2008-06-10 @ 21:09:20
It is theft. Have you never heard of 'Interlectual property' or are you just wearing your 'Devils Advocate' Overcoat?
- - SeasideMan ^Pro
  - 2008-06-10 @ 21:45:30
  No, it isn't theft legally, because it doesn't fit the legal definition of theft, which is: "The taking and removing of personal property, with an intent to deprive the rightful owner of the same". The rightful owner hasn't lost any property, so it isn't theft.
  
  It is illegal because it's copyright infringement, but it isn't theft.
  
  Tom.
  - - dennypoos
    - 2008-06-11 @ 05:54:37
    Hmm, thats a 'common law' view which is being revised by many jurisdicial systems along with much patent law and other copyright systems.
    For a more detailed look at the current views, try this link to what 'Britanica' has to say on the matter.
    intellectual-property law
    - - dennypoos
      - 2008-06-11 @ 05:59:51
      Notwithstanding any 'Moral Dilema's', there is also and more importantly the fact that because of the compression used to encode Mp3, the quality when played back on a decent Hi-Fi system is shit. Its ok for a portable with earphones but otherwise...Nah.
      - SeasideMan ^Pro
        
        2008-06-11 @ 09:11:13
        
        That depends what bit-rate you compress at. You need astonishingly good ears to detect the difference at 320. On music with a massive dynamic range such as orchestral music or jazz the difference is more audible for any rock, pop or dance music, the compression makes little difference even at relatively low bit-rates such as 192.
        
        Tom.
        
        Reply to comment
        
        Permalink
        
        Show this thread
        
        dennypoos
        
        2008-06-12 @ 05:27:53
        
        Neither myself nor my friends have the hearing of of a bat nor 'Astonishingly good hearing' but we can always tell twixt the two on the stuff we listen to.
        Its partially an ambience and partly a loss of detail and information that at first may not seem to have too much bearing on things but which fugs the musical experience.
        
        Not for me at this moment in time.
        
        Reply to comment
        
        Permalink
        
        Show this thread
        
        SeasideMan ^Pro
        
        2008-06-12 @ 09:02:36
        
        What bit-rates can you tell the difference at though?
        
        Tom.
        
        Reply to comment
        
        Permalink
    - - SeasideMan ^Pro
      - 2008-06-11 @ 09:08:20
      I described the system in law at the moment. The record companies are lobbying for change, but whether they succeed or not is another matter. Did you know that here, it's even illegal to copy a CD for your own use? Anyone who rips a CD onto their MP3 player is actually breaking the law and that seems wrong to me.
      
      What's your view on the morality of all this?
      
      Tom.
      - dennypoos
        
        2008-06-12 @ 05:38:03
        
        Yep, knew all that stuff, but as one who has got away with not paying his busfare as a kid and who knowingly accepted the gift of a stolen 'Airfix' kit, I may perhaps not be best suited to sit in judgment on my fellow man.
        
        Who among us has not photo-copied a page from a book.....ILLEGAL.
        
        Who among us has not downloaded a picture or info from a Google source and used it in our blog....ILLEGAL.
        
        We are all facing potential criminal prosecution but as with oh-so many things, its a question of degree.
        
        Reply to comment
        
        Permalink
        
        Show this thread
        
        SeasideMan ^Pro
        
        2008-06-12 @ 09:00:27
        
        So you seem to be in the "it's not immoral" camp. You are far from alone in that group.
        
        Tom.
        
        Reply to comment
        
        Permalink
        
        Show this thread
        
        dennypoos
        
        2008-06-13 @ 06:36:21
        
        Moral, Immoral, and indeed Amoral, its always nice to find a kindred spirit.
        
        Reply to comment
        
        Permalink
- lostjohnny
- http://lostjohnnyparadox.blog.co.uk
- 2008-06-11 @ 15:24:20
It is theft. Yes music can be expensive and yes someone is making a profit, however a band puts their art out there and deserves to receive payment.
- - SeasideMan ^Pro
  - 2008-06-11 @ 16:41:52
  Thanks for that. Do you think the same rule applies equally to all music, even if it's 40 years old and unavailable on CD?
  
  Tom.
  - - lostjohnny
    - http://lostjohnnyparadox.blog.co.uk
    - 2008-06-12 @ 15:35:45
    Hi if the sounds are not availabe to modern media yes why not.
    - - SeasideMan ^Pro
      - 2008-06-12 @ 15:56:01
      How come stealing it is OK under that circumstance? You said:
      
      "It is theft. Yes music can be expensive and yes someone is making a profit, however a band puts their art out there and deserves to receive payment."
      
      Does that no loner apply if it's old music that's not available on CD?
      
      I'm not trying to be awkward, just to understand your thinking.
      
      Thanks, Tom.
      - lostjohnny
        
        http://lostjohnnyparadox.blog.co.uk
        
        2008-06-12 @ 16:40:35
        
        If the music is 100% unavailable by any other means and you wish to enjoy them then if they were available to download then I figured it was OK.
        
        Reply to comment
        
        Permalink
        
        Show this thread
        
        SeasideMan ^Pro
        
        2008-06-12 @ 17:08:25
        
        OK, thanks for explaining.
        
        Tom.
        
        Reply to comment
        
        Permalink
  - - lostjohnny
    - http://lostjohnnyparadox.blog.co.uk
    - 2008-06-12 @ 15:36:01
    Hi if the sounds are not availabe to modern media yes why not.
    - Reply to comment
    - Permalink
- loiswakeman
- http://lois.co.uk
- 2008-06-12 @ 14:32:38
As someone who makes a partial living by selling digital products, I don't think you should even be asking the question! Of course it's theft, whether done electronically or nicking a CD from the corner shop.

We live in a market economy, and if we think something non-essential is too expensive, we all have the choice not to buy it. If we are really honest, we don't have the choice to steal it. If we're not ...

The position on copying a legitimately acquired track (or piece of software, or e-book, or film) from one medium to another for personal use is more ambiguous IMO: more a question of reasonable or unreasonable licence restrictions than copyright. Digital rights management is a legal minefield I suspect.
- - SeasideMan ^Pro
  - 2008-06-12 @ 15:14:07
  It doesn't compare to taking a CD from a shop. If you do that, the shop has had their property taken away. A better comparison would be borrowing a CD from a library or friend and copying it. It's not theft because the owner still has the original, but it is an illegal copyright infringement.
  
  Copying for personal use is illegal too, but tends to be not prosecuted. If you rip a CD onto your MP3 player, you are breaking the law.
  
  The law needs sorting out in this area, because it clearly hasn't caught up with the modern world. The copyright laws were written before computer use was widespread and clearly can't cope.
  
  I think that on principle music should be paid for. But I'm a musician, so I would say that, wouldn't I?
  
  Tom.
  - Reply to comment
  - Permalink
- Jenniebaby
- 2008-06-20 @ 17:51:59
How could it not be wrong?

If people take recorded (or printed, for that matter) music (though same applies to all art, literature etc) without paying for it, how can musicians (composers, artists etc) make a living?

Ultimately, it seems to me, there is a danger that this could kill off the recording industry completely.

And I agree that it is not directly comparable to taking a CD from a shop - in that case, you are stealing from the shop (who has already paid the performer/composer/producer etc for the music).
In the case of infringing copyright, it is more like you stile the CD directly from the performer/composer/producer/manufacturer - I think you are stealing their property - ie the performance - even though you are not taking a physical item.
- - SeasideMan ^Pro
  - 2008-06-20 @ 18:17:03
  Lots of people think that all music should be completely free to listen to in the same way that you can read any book for free in a library. The musicians would make money from playing their music live to a paying audience.
  
  This isn't a view I agree with.
  
  You say this could kill the recording industry. That's true, but is that a problem? Recorded works would become promotional items for live shows and bands would have to market themselves on the net rather than have a company do it for them for the lion's share of the proceeds.
  
  The first casualty will be high street shops and these are already dying off.
  
  Thanks for responding.
  
  Tom.
  - Reply to comment
  - Permalink
- FogOpporsok (Visitor)
- 2008-11-20 @ 19:42:04
buy [url=http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101385]buy aciphex[/url] TT%$ , [url=http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101390]rimonabant acomplia[/url] juhj , [url=http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101392]costa allegra[/url] ygt , [url=http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101395]allopurinol drug[/url] gy , [url=http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101398]avapro blood high pressure[/url] kjjchjjc^% , [url=http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101399]adalat cc[/url] fcvxdxs , [url=http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101401]amoxil side effects[/url] jjbvc , [url=http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101403]amoxicillin side effects[/url] nfa
, [url=http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101404]albuterol inhaler side effects[/url] ulod , [url=http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101407]buy avandia online[/url] iuygy , [url=http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101408]asacol effects side[/url] 84,mmnhyu , [url=http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101409]avodart medication[/url] tfggvg%$j**jk , [url=http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101410]bactrim f[/url] tredgf , [url=http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101411]biaxin[/url] joltuk , [url=http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101412]celexa depression[/url]
- Reply to comment
- Permalink
- CredPleri (Visitor)
- 2008-11-22 @ 22:52:49
oki,
[url=http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101696]lotrel side effects[/url] iygvfn , [url=http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101797]maxalt migraine[/url] 9510.8 , [url=http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101798]Buy methotrexate[/url] kfjvjodf , [url=http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101800]neurontin[/url] fcvxdxs , [url=http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101805]mircette birth control[/url] (: , [url=http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101807]nexium 40mg[/url] kfjvjodf , [url=http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101809]norvasc medicine[/url] joltuk , [url=http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101810]200mg ketoconazole[/url] iuygy , [url=http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101813]cheap nolvadex[/url] fcvxdxs , [url=http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101814]periactin[/url] (: , [url=http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101815]cheap prilosec[/url] 9510.8 , [url=http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101816]plavix medication[/url] 45% , [url=http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101817]clopidogrel generic[/url] tgeew , [url=http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101818]mirtazapine 15 mg[/url] lkm66 , [url=http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101819]buy Atenolol[/url]
- Reply to comment
- Permalink
- agillonnelvek (Visitor)
- 2008-11-23 @ 06:08:47
yugfcdemk , [url=http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101820]buy tenormin[/url] bygt433 , [url=http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101821]drug risperdal[/url] 7458 , [url=http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101822]Voltarol online[/url]

http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101696#1 " target="_blank"> generic lotrel 0251 , http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101797#1 " target="_blank"> buy maxalt 65400. , http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101798#1 " target="_blank"> methotrexate kii8 , http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101800#1 " target="_blank"> neurontin ygt , http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101805#1 " target="_blank"> mircette treomb , http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101807#1 " target="_blank"> nexium side effects 222 , http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101809#1 " target="_blank"> norvasc medication wvsxoki , http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101810#1 " target="_blank"> ketoconazole oral 098776 , http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101813#1 " target="_blank"> buy nolvadex 7854 , http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101814#1 " target="_blank"> periactin medication 5JHJ (* , http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101815#1 " target="_blank"> prilosec otc 222 , http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101816#1 " target="_blank"> plavix 75mg 45% , http://www.scam.com/member.php?u=101817#1 " target="_blank"> clopidogrel
- Reply to comment
- Permalink
- mevetrorserie (Visitor)
- 2008-11-26 @ 15:17:49
dermatolog & http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1045381#1 " target="_blank"> hydrocodone online nnchyy% , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1045450#1 " target="_blank"> adipex kii8 , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1045458#1 " target="_blank"> adipex diet pill 6354654 , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1045580#1 " target="_blank"> ambien juu7gg vvhgh , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1045583#1 " target="_blank"> ambien rx 5JHJ (* , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1045605#1 " target="_blank"> ativan buy online mpwbnhj , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1045607#1 " target="_blank"> hydroxycut ephedra 7854 , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1045630#1 " target="_blank"> ephedra diet pill kjjjn , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1045629#1 " target="_blank"> oxycodone wvsxoki , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1045644#1 " target="_blank"> xanax online kjjjn , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1045647#1 " target="_blank"> diet pill xanax
- Reply to comment
- Permalink
- exighQuigGrix (Visitor)
- 2008-11-27 @ 20:47:22
8555 , [url=http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049117]buy cheapest online xenical[/url] mk8vgvg , [url=http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049122]effects overdose oxycontin side[/url] 021 , [url=http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049123]vicodin online[/url] [p;kljyu , [url=http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049126]vicodin picture[/url] NB%$ , [url=http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049131]buy cheap online vigrx[/url] TVG gg, [url=http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049134]lawyer vioxx[/url] mk8vgvg , [url=http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049138]klonopin withdrawal[/url]

http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1048997#1 " target="_blank"> alprazolam online kc54* , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049004#1 " target="_blank"> order diazepam bxgxg$ , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049005#1 " target="_blank"> cheap carisoprodol tgeew , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049006#1 " target="_blank"> order carisoprodol 45% , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049008#1 " target="_blank"> buy tadalafil cialis fcvxdxs , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049009#1 " target="_blank"> buy cialis online
- Reply to comment
- Permalink
- PaizeNicacits (Visitor)
- 2008-11-27 @ 22:42:42
.,jutf , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049010#1 " target="_blank"> cialis viagra tgeew , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049012#1 " target="_blank"> levitra 261kjhj ku624, http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049016#1 " target="_blank"> buy meridia lkjnh5** , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049018#1 " target="_blank"> meridia diet pill .,jutf , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049019#1 " target="_blank"> purchase phentermine qcopp , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049022#1 " target="_blank"> buy cheap phentermine fcvxdxs , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049026#1 " target="_blank"> cheap phentermine online ooo6%% , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049027#1 " target="_blank"> phentermine cheap no prescription kjjjn , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049029#1 " target="_blank"> prozac drug mhfuo , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049033#1 " target="_blank"> purchase soma online 45% , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049042#1 " target="_blank"> cheap soma jff , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049046#1 " target="_blank"> soma online TVG gg, http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049048#1 " target="_blank"> buy drug tramadol m,.kmj , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049051#1 " target="_blank"> tramadol online gtffvf , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049056#1 " target="_blank"> order tramadol 2
- Reply to comment
- Permalink
- Afferilouff (Visitor)
- 2008-11-28 @ 00:40:10
bxgxg$ , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049058#1 " target="_blank"> ativan lorazepam juu7gg vvhgh , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049060#1 " target="_blank"> drug valium lkjnh5** , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049062#1 " target="_blank"> buy valium online (: , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049064#1 " target="_blank"> cheap generic valium ychh , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049067#1 " target="_blank"> drug viagra ljl578 , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049069#1 " target="_blank"> buy viagra on line yncxc , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049070#1 " target="_blank"> mail order viagra gtfFT , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049072#1 " target="_blank"> cialis generic viagra jnkj , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049077#1 " target="_blank"> cheap viagra uk .,jutf , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049080#1 " target="_blank"> viagra sale khjg , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049083#1 " target="_blank"> fioricet addiction fcvxdxs , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049086#1 " target="_blank"> hoodia gordonii kfkfk , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049089#1 " target="_blank"> hoodia pop power wedvyuj , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049091#1 " target="_blank"> 10 day diet hoodia bygt433 , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049092#1 " target="_blank"> norco viagra kjjchjjc^% , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049096#1 " target="_blank"> ultram 50mg TT%$ , http://www.recipezaar.com/member/1049105#1 " target="_blank"> ultracet tramadol
- Reply to comment
- Permalink