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@ 2008-05-19 – 11:07:53
A recent question on this group blog was, "Is prostitution a form of abuse?"
http://askoranswer.blog.co.uk/2008/05/02/is-prostitution-a-form-of-abuse-4124196
Recently I read about a group of women that sold their sexual services to disabled men, many of these men could not envisage a sexual relationship with a woman in any other circumstances.
Are these ladies providing a necessary service?
Have they just found a way of making money?
Is it a form of abuse?
Are they right or wrong?
SeasideMan
Pro 
joebangles
I'm with you Tom, always have had prostitution and always will have, obviously the close involvement with crime causes great concern but no government in this country seems to take action or even find it worthy of discussion.
shakeberry
If she chooses that line of work it's not abuse, but the one's who are forced then yes. Some women like the money prostitution brings in, so choose to continue it, there's always customers anyway. Problem is some become so used to the money, the lines become blurry.
joebangles
Hi shakeberry, as you write, there will of course always be customers and there is some concern as to what these customers would do if the ladies were not available to them.
I believe that there will always be those that prefer this way of earning, maybe they are "using" the users.
It is well known that many woman are forced into this work but the UK government dose not appear to want to act in any way.
How much are they charging ?
joebangles
Hi S & V, well, this is a group where you can ask questions.
DominicGee
I believe in the decriminalisation of Prostitution - that is it should not be illegal for a woman to be a prostitute; allowing her to get help from the police without fear of arrest. However, I still believe that the activities of those who profit from prostitution - both the pimps and the 'clients' should still be illegal. There are several reasons for this that directly contradict the common 'liberal' ideas that the decriminalization of the sex industry would be a good thing.
- Decriminalization of the sex industry would not give the prostitutes freedom or rights, all it would do is legitimize the already existing pimps and turn them into bona-fide entrepreneurs. Legalisation would not 'dignify' the women in the sex industry, it merely dignifies the sex-industry itself.
- Contrary to modern thinking (though I feel in line with common sense) legalizing prostitution does not stop traffiking but promotes it. Around 80% of the women in brothels in the Netherlands are foreign. In 2000 the Netherlands successfully lobbied the EU to have prostitution recognised as a genuine profession - thus enabling women from the EU and former Soviet bloc countries to obtain working permits as "sex workers" in the Dutch sex industry. The sheer volume of foreign women who are in the prostitution industry in Germany - by some estimates are now up to 85 per cent - casts further doubt on the fact that these numbers of women could have entered Germany without 'help'. As in the Netherlands, indepedent studies report that most of the foreign women have been trafficked into the country since it is almost impossible for poor women to facilitate their own migration, underwrite the costs of travel and travel documents, and set themselves up in "business" without outside help.
- In the Netherlands, women in prostitution point out that legalization or decriminalization of the sex industry cannot erase the stigma of prostitution but, instead, makes women more vulnerable to abuse because they must register and lose anonymity. Thus, the majority of women in prostitution still choose to operate illegally and underground.
- In both the Netherlands and Victoria, Australia (where prostitution was made legal) there has been a significant increase in the number of child prostitution cases compared to before it was legalized or in areas where prostitution is illegal.
People I think also forget that legalising the industry would also mean a massive increase in demand. As practically every female I know would never willingly become a prostitute, how is this gap going to be filled?
I also do not think it legitimate of a government to legalise something simply because they are unable to find an effective way of policing it.
The vast majority of studies and surveys done within the sex industry has produced the same results - prostitutes do not like their job (hence the high rate of class A drug users among them) they do not think it should be legalized and none would ever wish the job upon any of their friends, daughters or other family memebers.
Sorry for such a long and labourious answer, but I keep having this debate recently (always with men) and I'm tired of the same old fallacy - 'legalisation will protect the women involved'. What never seems to be mentioned is that most women find the idea absolutely abhorrent. If it's something that you're not willing to do yourself do not assume that other people can do it. It is not the same as any other job.
One last thing, prostitution does not just exploit the women involved but also the men. This does not mean that it's ok.
Well argued. There is nothing more can be said ....of worth
Decriminalization of the sex industry would not give the prostitutes freedom or rights, all it would do is legitimize the already existing pimps and turn them into bona-fide entrepreneurs.
decriminalization of the sex industry cannot erase the stigma of prostitution
Thus, the majority of women in prostitution still choose to operate illegally and underground.
In both the Netherlands and Victoria, Australia (where prostitution was made legal) there has been a significant increase in the number of child prostitution cases
As practically every female I know would never willingly become a prostitute
DominicGee
you and i agree on the first point - decriminalise prostitution but not the pimps and users.
Granted you may know women who would willingly become a prostitute - I am only talking from my own experience which is the best anyone can do. Speaking of which I do know a girl who became a prossie, didn't work out in the end, she became depressed and had to live with an ex before getting out.
I do not think that there is ony a stigma attached to prostitution simply because they are doing for the money, I think that to say that is an attempt to be too objective and 'modern'. It is allowed to say that sex should not be a commodity. There are things that are generally accepted as a commodity and some things that are not. The reason that the VAST MAJORITY of prostitutes in this country and others do it is as a last resort, when they have nothing else they can offer. There are other ways of making money.
The idea that being a call-girl/escort is somehow romanticised like in that Billie Piper program or Pretty Woman. They are far removed from the truth.
The problem I find is that I am arguing this point against people who do not see it as intrinsically wrong. I can't argue with that. I can bang on about stats and figures and results, but what it comes down to is whether we should give women the 'freedom' to make the choice. I do not believe that it is a freedom but there we go. It seems to me to be another example of how feminism has been hi-jacked once again by lazy-minded and mysoginistic males but disguised in a Liberal coat. I am not a prude but I would never become a rent-boy - I want to sleep with the people I want to, not whoever wants to sleep with me. If that's the way most people feel than we shouldn't assume anyone else feels different. To me it's like saying that dustbin men actually enjoy the shit they haul.
In order to show how liberal and 'free' we are, yes we can decriminalise Prostitution - but let's not pretend that the only reason it is and always has been a problem was simply because it was illegal.
My final statement is that if the majority of the people in this country believe in legalizing prostitution then so be it, I'll admit I'm wrong. The government could end all debate on this subject if they just bothered to ask the general public, but they won't. I refuse to allow my moral agenda to be dictated by politicians. I fear that if no one is asked to vote on the issue, the politicians will legalise and suddenly everyone will believe there is nothing wrong with it at all - as if there isn't enough problems in this country in terms of disease, and the youth getting entirely mixed messages from every quarter regarding sex.
Geez I sound old.
See, the way I see it is sex is sex. It's a fun time to be had when not trying to make babies.
Making love is VERY different. This doesn't mean I think that little of sex that I would cheat on my partner, far from it, but that's more to do with my respect for him than sex.
It is this thinking that leads me to see nothing wrong in legalising prostitution but as I said before it needs to be a very careful legal process. If it was legalised and controlled then there wouldn't be the risk of the infections etc (hopefully!)
You're quite right that some films and media glamourise the sex industry when in actuality it's a seedy and gritty institution but it is something that no one is ever going to stop. No matter how much people try and ban in or move it from certain areas it is one thing that people will never ever be able to get rid of completely. There is truth in being the oldest profession!
So, if we can't stop it, why not try and make it smoother for those who willingly want to do and the punishments stricter for those who wish to do it illegally. And yes, I do firmly believe that some men and women would choose it as a legitimate career choice. As for those who are doing it because they are desperate for money, well I have little sympathy for most of those. Some of them end up in bad circles and quite literally do have no choice, for them I feel sorry, for those who use to pay the rent because they're too damn lazy and/or picky when it comes to getting a "real" job then I have no sympathy. There are ways out of these situations but most people are too bone idle to take them! I am not including those forced in to the sex industry in my lack of pity there.
It will be a difficult thing to legalise but I do believe it will happen eventually and I think it will be for the better, as long, as I keep saying, it's done right. One tiny loophole, one less member of staff on the team policing the industry and it won't just be the prostitutes getting fucked!
Oh, and you don't sound old, you sound rather sensible. It's good to have a debate/discussion with some one who is happy to listen and to discuss rather than rant ans spout about being right and the other person being wrong!
DominicGee
Sorry I didn't quite answer the question. The case that you state is clearly a rarity and not something to make a policy of. I know plenty of people who sleep with all sorts for all sorts of crazy reasons (I know I have!) but that cannot be equated to prostitution.
joebangles
A cracking good comment Dominic, you make many good points, must agree with much of what you write.
Why do the UK government not debate this subject as they are well aware of the problems that exist and the dangers that are involved at present? Legalisation could at least allow the setting up of brothels with very strict rules and regulation.
RichardHead
Was being a prostitute ever a first choice? I think not!
Fallen on hard times, exploited in debt by others. Promised streets paved with gold over there when you currently live here in poverty with others to support.
Yes it's assertive, probably lazy, men exploiting women again after they have sampled the merchandise first! Men who are not averse to using the ritualistic tools of addiction be it drink or drugs to initiate the humiliation and abuse. And women whose lives having already experienced personal loss, stress or bitter dissapointment have led them on the path leading to insecurity, inadequacy or self-pity. The tatoos, the piercings that give out such strong signals to the men who wait to exploit them.
Prostitution...It's not there for pleasure...It's there because of greed.
Prostitution...It's not an act...It's merely a way of life.
Prostitution...It's not a profession...It's a trap!!!
...It's not there for pleasure...It's there because of greed.
...It's not an act...It's merely a way of life.
...It's not a profession...It's a trap!!!
Your description sound like most jobs from cleaner to miner or factory worker.
what's the difference?
RichardHead
If I work for someone as a cleaner, miner or factory worker the job description, if there is one, could not commit me to compromise my own personal morality or integrity. It could not do so because this element of the contract would be illegal.
Were your standards those of a criminal then I would agree with you that there would be no difference since the work involved is illegal. But two wrongs never made a right so my arguement stands...Prostitution is not to be taken as being equal to a job of any kind!
If I had a legal job and wanted to have sex with my employer then that activity would be outside of any contract that I might have. In this case it would be my choice to engage in sex and, more importantly, I would not be motivated to have sex with my employer because I would be paid to do so.
If sex is free and consential then it's not prostitution.
why sleeping with someone for money is less moral than giving any other services?
At least when you pay for sex you know what you pay for, when you pay for financial advisor in the bank, neither you nor the advisor knows what you will get for your money. Which is more moral?
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If a prostitute chose that way of earning money freely, without coercion, then he/she has not been abused. It is a useful, perhaps even essential service. But if they have been trafficked or coerced that is an entirely different matter. It’s also different if their earnings go elsewhere, to a pimp or to an international crime cartel.
Is a hod carrier being abused because his muscles are being used?
Cheers, Tom.