To Kill or Not To Kill?

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To Kill or Not To Kill?

by DominicGee @ 2008-05-12 – 12:44:51

Was attempting to have a discussion the other day about Capital Punishment (that old chesnut). Here's the deal:
Is it more ethical to keep someone alive in order for them to serve punishment for the rest of their life in a prison, or to simply execute them?

It seems to me that a large part of the argument against Capital Punishment is the idea that we do not have a right to take away someone's life (outside of war and self defence). However, the alternative - giving somebody life imprisonment - seems just as extreme. There has been a whole spate of programs on TV about the world's hardest prisons. Are these places actually helping? They are certainly not rehabilitating the offenders.
So the conclusion is (and the person with whom I had the discussion admitted this freely) that we keep them alive because 'death is too easy.' Call me naive, but I was under the impression that civilization and 1500 years of the English Judicial System came to more than simply physically retaliating in this way towards offenders.
There is the argument that the reason for the abandonment of Capital Punishment is due to the seculrisation of this (and other) countries. That is, because there is not that strong belief in the after-life, punishments dealt to offenders must be carried out in THIS lifetime rather than the next. Previously, had a horrific crime been committed than the person was sentenced to death, given the chance to repent then executed.
What do you guys think? Recent polls in this country seem to suggest that people DO want a return to Capital Punishment, the main argument against it being the devastation if/when a mistake is made and an innocent man is killed.
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15 Comments on To Kill or Not To Kill?

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- The_Walrus ^Pro
- http://www.doctor-dark.co.uk
- 2008-05-12 @ 13:04:03
Quite large numbers of people have been judicially murdered who later turned out to be innocent, including, so it now seems, Dr Crippen. That's all the argument I need to convince me it is a wrong thing to do. The discussion about what to do instead belongs elsewhere.

Incidentally, isn't that an annoying Scientology advert on your blog? Now they should be shot at dawn, as they all believe they are going to live for a billion years, as long as they pay enough to to owners of the cult.
- - DominicGee
  - 2008-05-12 @ 15:04:54
  Is it better than to imprison someone wrongly for life for a crime they didn't commit?
  
  Don't know where these scientology adverts have come from, we should all start worrying - they have judged the people on these blogs ready and open to it.
  
  And watch what you say abou them too...
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- soyunperdedor ^Pro
- http://soyunperdedor.blog.co.uk
- 2008-05-12 @ 13:56:43
Personally my view is that life imprisonment should mean life. Not 15 years, to be let out on good behaviour. Far better to lock someone up in the starkest and most miserable of conditions and throw away the key than to execute them. Their should be more rehabilitation schemes to free up prison space for people who commit the worst crimes that would probably warrant execution in the States (for example).

I feel execution releases an individual from any obligation to reflect upon and live with what they have done. It isn't a punishment anymore.
- - DominicGee
  - 2008-05-12 @ 14:59:28
  but the exact opposite could be said. If you tell someone they are going to die, wont that prompt some sort of repentance (as it did in numerous occasions) whereas a life in prison breeds bitterness, anger and misery. The film 'Dead Man Walking' illustrates this in my opinion. The man expressed regret and sorrow for what he has done, so when he is executed he is clean. Had he not been told he was to die, you would have become just another murderous inmate.
  - - DominicGee
    - 2008-05-12 @ 15:02:51
    and surely DYING is a punishment? Isn't it slightly blase to assume that an execution is somehow easier on the accused - I mean, they're gonna be dead.
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  - - soyunperdedor ^Pro
    - http://soyunperdedor.blog.co.uk
    - 2008-05-12 @ 15:07:23
    I was giving my personal opinion that's all, I can see it both ways.
    
    I have no problem with someone harbouring a lifetime of bitterness, anger and misery, as long as they are locked up. If someone murders someone, why shouldn't they be sentenced to a miserable existence?
    
    I also partially agree that if someone murders somebody and is then sentenced to death, I see no difference in the crime being committed, however many judges and juries agree.
    
    There's no right or wrong answer is there?
    - - DominicGee
      - 2008-05-12 @ 15:36:03
      no i suppose not, though if the majority of people think it should return, it should. I take that position with most debates of this sort.
      - soyunperdedor ^Pro
        
        http://soyunperdedor.blog.co.uk
        
        2008-05-12 @ 15:37:59
        
        A sensible stance to take, although my opinion will not change.
        
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- boredrich
- 2008-05-13 @ 17:49:08
it is a difficult subject really because of the what if's that will always be involved however I think sometimes capital punishment is needed for example these people who admit to crimes and are totally insane to admit they will do it again if thats the case then time to flick the switch
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- deleted user (Visitor)
- 2008-05-17 @ 00:25:07
i think that in this day and age, people convicted solidly (due to evidence including DNA,) on a pre-meditated murder charge should serve time on a basic 'death row' style wing, before execution.
Sentences no longer fit the crime. More often than not ofenders get a slap on the wrist in the form of a community punichment order or suspended sentence, and those that DO get locked up go to cushy prisons with all sortss of great facilities and only have to serve about 2 thirds of their sentence before they can get early release!!!
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- LandersUK ^Pro
- 2008-05-17 @ 12:51:19
My brother was killed by a drunk driver. I do not want the driver to be killed. I want him in prison. For life. I want him in a 6ftx6ft concrete box. No exercise. Bread, water and vitamins to keep him alive given to him every day. A toilet that is just a hole in the ground. No sink, no wash basin, nothing nice, no visits from family or friends, no tv, no christmas, no birthday, no sex. He has no rights. He lost them all when he took my brother. I want him to live out his natural life locked away.

He was banned from driving for three years, which he ignored, and fined £750, which he paid a £1 a week. He was four times over the limit. He doesn't remember anything about hitting my brother.

I hate him with every ounce of my body but I don't want him dead.
- - Mrs_F
  - 2008-05-21 @ 10:29:10
  I find it hard that this guy was dealt with so leniently. I am 100% with you on that one. Someone who was 4 times over the limit cannot argue that he was accidentally over the limit. That guy had no regard for anyone else whatsoever.
  
  Hug
  
  X
  - - LandersUK ^Pro
    - 2008-05-21 @ 11:57:17
    I forgot to add that he is also got a six month suspended sentence... he never served a day of it... he never saw the inside of a prison cell... not even at a police station. He was questioned in hospital, arrested and dealt with in hospital, had to report to a police station once he was out of hospital but not once was he locked up!
    - - QueeneMab
      - 2008-05-21 @ 14:10:39
      i am sorry to hear that, very sorry indeed.
      
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- RichardHead
- 2008-05-25 @ 02:46:07
There was one alternative in the past when "Deportation" was the founding of Australia.

Consider, if you will, a modern variation. The premis being that the environment each of us shares is, to say the least, a cosy option and not dissimilar to that inside a prison with the "freedom" element removed.

Suppose the "prisoner" were in a foreign place where people look and behave differently and use a language other than english. Suppose the "prisoner" had some really hard work to do each day before he/ she had access to basic food or a place to sleep under cover.

What I am thinking of is service overseas in a developing country but under a specifically controlled regime in some location where escape might be possible but would probably lead to a far greater hardship than the one being endured under the existing regime.

There might also be a way forward to encourage the longer serving "lags" into being in charge of the others. Perhaps this would be something for everyone to look forward to as it would have more priviledges but more sanctions too if one slipped from grace by one's deeds or lack of them in such a position.

A closed society which, together, works for the good of others less priviledged. A society who is exposed to how others have to live on a daily basis, a constant reminder of what each member of this society has foresaken because of their illegal activities (murder and other lesser but none the less violent activities). A close society in which they can make a new start and one which promises to reward them for their labours but only on a scale which relates to the lesser standards which prevail in their current location rather than those "back home".

For the victims friends and relations there is the knowledge that the perpetrator(s) now have a much harder existance than before yet there will be some good come out of it. A local water supply; A school building for a village; The detritus of flood, earthquake or famine tidied away in an orderly fashion leaving the real residents more time on their hands to pick up their lives as best they can. A cross fertilisation of minds between those who have nothing and those who did sometime in the past but have a lesson to learn that has been set by their former society based upon the extent and nature of their crime.
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